On Eating Animals

1/9/2010 2:22:52 AM #

I'm a pretty confirmed carnivore, I just can't support all the weightlifting I do on a vegetarian diet.  I do buy organic, free range, grass fed.  A group of friends and I periodically have one of the local farms that sells grass fed beef spit a cow 15 ways, we each get a box with 40# of various cuts and ground beef.  This type of buying is getting more and more popular.

I eat a lot of eggs.  I basically eat a "paleo" diet; no processed foods and no grains.  Fruits, veggies, nuts seeds ad meat.  No dairy except eggs.  I have been experimenting with nutrition for years and nothing works as well for me performance wise.  It should be noted that I am currently lifting and doing high intensity short duration workouts.  It would be very hard for me to sustain endurance training without adding some starchier carbs.  

Eating like this is very, very expensive.   I have had to cut back on spending elsewhere to afford our diet. But I am very lucky to live in the SF Bay Area where locally produced, sustainably farmed and humanely treated food is readily available.

Leigh

1/9/2010 5:00:23 AM #

I am vegan and haven't had a problem getting the protein I need from plant-based sources.  The idea that vegans and vegetarians don't get enough protein is just not one that holds water with me.  Certain vitamins I have to watch out for (notably B12), but protein just isn't an issue (and I work out 5-6 days a week running, biking, swimming, doing yoga, and strength training).

This series of videos has a whole lot of good information for plant-based nutrition for athletes: http://thrivein30.com/sign-up-now/ (For some reason you have to sign up for the videos, which they will email you every day.  It's free; I don't know why the sign up.)  

Kate

1/9/2010 5:29:05 AM #

I fell off the vegetarian wagon over the Christmas holidays that I'd firmly been on for the past two years. At first I felt a little guilty, and then I dove headfirst into a Christmas ham, pork green chili and chicken wings. At this point, I'm only eating meat at other people's homes and when eating out, staying vegetarian in my home and in the meals I prepare for myself. I'm grappling with going back to vegetarianism because I feel like it's the right thing to do (for me, it's the environmental implications of meat eating), while at the same time absolutely *loving* eating meat again. I don't know which will win out.

Kimberly

1/9/2010 5:46:47 AM #

There is much evidence to suggest that we are not naturally meat eaters, rather that we've become perverted from our own nature towards it.

I think that the whole abominable treatment of animals is a sad reflection of our own poor morality and should be stopped immediately.

I'm not as pompous as my two above statements probably suggest

Nick

1/9/2010 6:08:25 AM #

I've been vegetarian for about 4 years now although to be honest it started off because my wife is buddhist and doesn't eat meat but it has grown on me.  I have no real problem getting enough protein.

We're about halfway through Food, Inc. and it's rather shocking!  I'm hoping that farming practices here in New Zealand are a bit better but I suspect even though we are supposed to be clean and green that a lot of it is just talk.

AndrewENZ

1/9/2010 8:56:22 AM #

I've run the gamut--raised vegetarian, went carnivore in my 20s and 30s and have now cut way back to mostly vegetarian in my 40s. My reasons as this time are completely about the unethical treatment of animals in factory farms. I'm lucky to live in a rural community that supports sustainable farming across the board so am able to find eggs, dairy and meat that is truly free-range and grass-fed. I am working right now on having fewer and fewer processed food options in the house, and having as much food as possible be ACTUAL food, not edible food-like substances, as Michael Pollan says. I know I feel better, sleep better and exercise better on whole foods. Now the carb-protein balance... still need to do some work there.

Sherilee

1/9/2010 1:29:25 PM #

I've been vegetarian for about 4 years now and have been mostly vegan for a little while (was fully vegan a couple years ago). I don't have any problems getting the protein I need (and btw, the bodybuilder claims for protein requirements for building muscle aren't backed by good research) and have been steadily losing fat and gaining muscle.

I'm healthier than I've ever been and I feel good about the ethical choices I've made.

I'd encourage you to slowly return to vegetarianism -- it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Just gradually phase out meat, one animal type at a time.

Btw, balancing carbs and protein and fats are overrated. Research shows that this doesn't matter. If you're trying to lose fat, you need to be in calorie deficit, and eating whole foods (for health) and doing strength training (to retain or grow muscle) is a plus. If you're trying to gain muscle, you need to be in a calorie surplus (not too much or you'll gain fat) and do strength training, and eating whole foods (for health) is a plus. Macronutrient ratios haven't made a difference in clinical studies -- diets of all types work for both goals.

Leo

1/9/2010 3:54:50 PM #

I am not a vegetarian, but my wife and I have watched Food Inc. and were at least shocked.  We have also have been trying to buy local and get some research on where our meat comes from, how it is raised etc. Although this takes time and I suspect something we will work as as we can.  

What I like most about this post, is it is the first post I have come across where someone has gone from non-vegetarian to vegetarian and back and is now consciously and logically thinking it through.  I get frustrated with this whole topic because there seem to be 'extremists' on both sides (vegetarian vs. meat consumption).  

It is refreshing to read about your outlook on this topic and your experience.

-mike.

Michael Dundas

1/9/2010 7:09:11 PM #

I don't eat much meat and eggs but when I do, I always eat organic. I think that's the best way to go about it. It's better for your health (no hormones and pesticides etc) and better for the environment.

I don't eat much meat simply because I don't like it but I am trying to eat more at my doctor's suggestion. I am lacking in certain vitamins and apparently it's because I don't eat enough meat and fish. I'm sure you can get all the nutrients required as a vegetarian (if you are very careful with what you eat) but I think it is almost impossible as a vegan.

Andrea

1/9/2010 11:37:43 PM #

I've been on all the bandwagons. vegan with my first pregnancy, then vegetarian, then carnivore, then responsible carnivore. Now I am on the "what ever is on sale" bandwagon.
There is a great local food place that specializes in meat and eggs, in the summer when funds were more plentiful I bought all my meat there, now things are a little tighter so I am forced to the grocery store. In the summer I grow all my own veggies and store as many as I can. If you can eat local all the time that is great!
I do when I can. Any amount helps.

Beth

1/9/2010 11:44:46 PM #

I eat meat, dairy and eggs currently but I feel like I'm moving away from it.  It's been books like the Omnivore's Dilemma and Fast Food Nation that have given me pause.  It's not only the treatment of the animals (which is horrific) but the environmental footprint of raising meat for human consumption that niggles at my conscience whenever I opt for meat.  There is a new book out called Eating Animals which is apparently quite disturbing and interesting... I've been avoiding picking it up quite yet because I suspect it'll be what pushes me over the edge. :-/  Soon though.

Lindsay

1/10/2010 2:24:57 AM #

I like to say that I've been a vegetarian for 5+ years, but in all honesty, I fall off the wagon quite regularly. I don't think that the occasional eating of animals is particularly bad for humans or the environment, but slipping up does make it harder to maintain vegetarianism because, let's face it, animals taste delicious.

I find the strongest argument for maintaining a vegetarian diet is environmental management and impact. It simply takes more resources to create a pound of beef than a pound of grain or vegetables. While agriculture obviously has it's own waste products and problems (Monsanto, anyone?), animal farming impacts the local ecosystem, pollutes water, and contributes to the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, while also requiring an obscene amount of petroleum, energy and water. Even farms that feed animals the right kinds of food for their bodies, medicate only the sick, and maintain good waste-management processes require much more energy inputs in their production of food than non-meat farmers.

Reducing animal protein consumption is one of the fastest ways to reduce your own personal environmental impact. It's easier to cut out meat than to eat ONLY local food (I tried it once and it was a pain in the ass) or to significantly change your transportation habits. While I wish more people would cut out unnecessary and redundant meat from their diets, I get that it's unrealistic, and that people generally try to do the best they can.

That said, I think that whatever works for you is the best. Supporting local agriculture is really, really important, even if it's in the form of animal farms. I admire your food ethics!

Sioux

1/10/2010 3:01:15 AM #

My goal is to eat like Leigh...and I get there about 80% of the time.  (btw, out of curiosity, leigh are you doing Crossfit, you mention paleo AND high intensity short workouts...kinda fits bill, was curious, I am and love it).  

Part of my (our) particular challenge is both being athletic, husband being diabetic AND having a 2year old in the house....planning ethical meals which satisfy everyone, sustain performance when working out 4-5 times a week... is kinda a logistical nightmare....so we're not batting 100%....but we strive to, everyday.

wn

1/10/2010 3:34:08 AM #

You need to read Lierre Keith's The Vegetarian Myth.

There are alternatives to industrial meat farming: local, grass-fed meat is attainable, humane, excellent nutrition, and less taxing on the environment.

I get my beef from a friend who has a farm just down the road from me (have 1/2 steer in the freezer). I get my chicken, turkey and eggs from a local farmer and my lamb and venison from the weekly farmer's market.

I would also suggest reading the PaNu (paleonu) blog.

Good luck!

CatCreek

1/10/2010 3:38:09 AM #

I have cut out most meat from my diet for the past 2 years or so.  If I do eat meat, or fish, I make sure I know where it came from and that it is free-range, grass fed, organic, etc.  I consume eggs, cheese, and milk but again, I make sure I know where it came from (usually the farm up the road).  Its true that eating this way can cost more, but to me, I eat less of the products because they are more satisfying and nutrient rich that it all evens out to me.  I heard or read somewhere that if we all chose to cut out 1 portion of meat each week, we would do so much to help the environmental impact industry farming has on our earth.  As someone else said, strive to do as much as you can do and know that every little thing counts.

Michelle

1/10/2010 3:45:56 AM #

Well, you know I don't eat meat, and if anything I'm moving further towards Veganism.  I echo the person who mentioned the book Eating Animals by Jonathan Safraen Froer (I think?) and I encourage you to watch Earthlings. I work hard to make sure I get enough protein from plant sources although I've only recently cut out fish. This is not the right forum to share recipes, but I'd be glad to do so by email!

Kyla

1/10/2010 3:55:41 PM #

wn, YES Crossfit and Olympic lifting and running (intervals and 5ks).  I will be cycling again come spring and paleo/zone does not cut it for that so I will add more carbs (sweet potatoes, yum); that's what I've found works.  I live by the 80/20 rule!!

Leigh

1/10/2010 11:48:53 PM #

I have a friend that recently returned to eating meat after having been a vegetarian for over a decade. She did it for her health; she is hyperglycemic, and she was waking in the night hungry and shaky. Since she has returned to meat, she hasn't had those kinds of problems. She had worried for years that her diet wasn't adequate, and now she worries for her children, who steadfastly refuse to follow her back to omnivoreville.

My husband and I tried vegetarianism in our 20s, and we about od'ed on french fries. I like the idea of balanced proteins and carbs. I feel best on that kind of diet.

angie

1/11/2010 2:41:46 PM #

I am not a vegetarian and I hope to never be one. I like meat and I don't feel guilty for eating animals but I am worried that we are not eating healthy meat.  We are lucky enough to be able to raise pigs in the summer so we have fresh pork meat all winter but it's not cheap anymore. I'm actually afraid to watch Food Inc. because I'm sure I will walk away with too much knowledge and not enough money to make the right change.

Jessica

1/12/2010 4:33:04 AM #

I'm intrigued by vegetarianism. I've tried it a few times but could never find that "filler" for meat, you know? I also have mixed feelings on soy, so I'm not completely comfortable replacing meat with soy. My husband is a staunch meat-eater and my kids are picky and I don't want to make a different meal for myself than for everyone else.
i realize these are all just kind of crappy excuses and if I really wanted to give up meat, I would...
Anyway, I have mixed feelings about it (obv in reference to myself, I don't judge anyone else for their meat or non-meat choices)

Kaitlyn

1/14/2010 2:12:04 PM #

I let my body and heart lead my choices in eating. I eat primarily a low-key modified macrobiotic diet (lots of vegetables and rice, very little dairy), with an emphasis on seasonal whole foods. I eat very little processed food, flours, sugar etc. Well, sugar is a hard one sometimes. I will eat meat, but eat it rarely and when I do I make informed choices and prefer humanely-raised, local meats. I try to eat a lot more raw foods in the warmer months, basically eating - as best I can and without getting too strict about it - a local, seasonal diet. The most important thing for me, though, is not to kick myself for eating outside those basic parameters occasionally. I was anorexic for years in my 20's; it's easy to let rules consume you, and food should be fun. My body tells me what I need to know and I let it speak to me. Adhering to strict rules silences that voice. I was vegetarian for about 10 years, though, mainly for ethical reasons, so it was weird eating meat again and I still have trouble cooking it. I won't eat faux meats made from soy; I think soy is overhyped and just eat the fermented versions (miso, tamari).

Karen Murphy

1/17/2010 9:57:35 PM #

Hi, Im new. I've been reading Sundry for years and found this blog after the Sw...well, whatever, I spent an entire day reading all those comments and was just glued to the computer screen. Anyway- I've read two of your posts and Im already a big fan!

I read the What We Eat book when it first came out and had the same reaction you did....well except the part about becoming vegan/vegetarian. I couldn't do it. My husband is a Marine and we are stationed in Japan and as you might imagine organic/free range/grass fed does NOT make its way over here [to the commissary which stocks American food]. Despite living here for 4 years my Japanese is um.....not good so I can't go into a local grocery store and have them point me to organic (though I believe Japanese food is better overall, organic or not). I buy lots of fresh produce, make pretty much everything from scratch and sort of have this lame competition (with myself!) to try and make it through the store without any packaged/processed food. I have a 4yr old and 15 mo old so Goldfish seem to be a staple in our house but most weeks I do pretty well. Except for the once-in-a-great-while when I cave to a bag of Cheetos.

Im anxious to move back home and get back to Whole Foods, going to farmers markets, try the CSA thing, have our milk delivered again etc.

Thanks for the great thought provoking posts.

lisa

1/17/2010 10:02:52 PM #

I was interrupted by above reference 15 mo old and feel like my comment didn't really say what I wanted it to-- which is basically, Im all for the most natural/organic/humanely treated meat, organic produce, etc. I just can't get it over here.

lisa

1/20/2010 8:16:22 PM #

I've been a vegetarian for 18 years (I'm 35). I eat a lot of cheese.

Bec

1/22/2010 3:33:25 AM #

I have been trying to be vegetarian (with low consumption of dairy and eggs -  like maybe an egg or some cheese once a week) for the past three years, but have steadily packed on weight over that time.   I eat healthily no matter what (hardly any sugar, low fat, no soda, alcohol only once a month or so, lots of whole grains).  I run and rock climb a few times a week, cycle everywhere, and lift (heavy) weights 3 times a week for an hour. But the few times I have lost weight or even maintained over that period was when I was consciously trying to eat low-carb, which is difficult on a mainly vegan diet.

Eventually I started tracking my macro-nutrient intake on FitDay.  I soon discovered that the only way I get enough protein (70 grams or more, given my current lean mass and ambition to get stronger at weightlifting) is by eating high carb and WAY over the number of calories I need in a day, or by upping my intake of dairy and eggs to a point where I feel nauseous.  The problem is that even high protein vegan foods like spinach, lentils, nuts, etc, still have lots of carbs and/or fat, and only a few grams of protein per serve.  

So I have reluctantly started to include fish and chicken again into my diet (I still draw the line at red meat because I can't stand the way it tastes).  That way I can eat low carb, high protein, moderate-to-low fat and still get enough protein.

I'm not saying you can't be healthy and fit and strong, have low body fat and be vegetarian/vegan, but I can't seem to make it work for me.  

Rachel H

1/24/2010 7:05:00 AM #

I have the most frustrating problem with all this. I would LOVE to be fully vegetarian, but I have the intestinal tract from HELL.  Veggies destroy me.  Seeds, nuts, whole grains - KILL me.  Beans can make me sick for days. I have IBS and it is the most irritating, frustrating, EMBARASSING (think horrible gas, nausea, cramps) problem that keeps me from eating most of what I want.  I love broccoli.  I love brussel sprouts.  I even really enjoy tofu.  Dairy gives me similar problems, but I can handle some as long as I use lactaid.

So, I'm having to try to manage to eat small amounts of the healthy food (accompanied by LOTS of Beano) I want and balance it at times with more processed grains, etc.  simply because I cannot eat in a way that makes me physically ill.  I have to have some meat b/c I need the protein and getting it all from plant based food makes me sick.  There are days that I subside on egg noodles and saltines b/c its all my system can handle.  I've talked to my gastroenterologist, a dietitian, etc. and they all basically agree that I'm somewhat screwed.  I'm trying probiotics right now and generally eat most of my veggies pretty well cooked.  The Beano helps somewhat.  But, its interesting to be in a position where my body refuses to eat what I know I should eat.   My mom and her brothers are the same way, my brother is the same way.  Stupid genes.

Sharon